#you know how aphobic you have to be for ME to notice

[genderqueerdykes]

as someone who is asexual and a trans man (amongst other things, i'm agender and xenic but also a man and prefer calling myself a trans man over masc + don't like calling myself under the non-binary umbrella label), seeing this massive wave of transandrophobia pop up has only made me feel more afraid online. 2016 alone was a detriment to my life, as i had just figured out what asexuality was and how that label fit me perfectly. only to find a wave of people who don't find me "queer enough" to call myself queer! i feel like i'm reliving those days again, as i've noticed a lot of trends in how people who are aphobic and/or transandrophobic tend to have similar arguments. "this side has it so much worse so you should shut up and stay in your lane" rhetoric has made me a lot more frustrated to exist in queer spaces. i don't have the space irl (due to where i live as well as my age being an issue in this regard) and having the space online just feels like this massive argument of erasure and negativity where i do not exist to these people, you know? apologies for the vent about this, at first i was going to try to articulate some sort of point about this and how trans men and asexual people are often put into this little erasure and confused person box but i sorta lost the point. mb

yeesh, i'm sorry you've gone through this. it really does seem like there's another wave of mass aphobia and aphobia, as well as transandrophobia coming to an all time high. it's really disturbing. i'm a trans man who's aromantic and on the asexual spectrum but that doesn't erase the fact that i'm queer. i've never understood why people say that aromanticism and asexuality aren't queer identities. like how? society expects very specific kinds of relationships out of all of us. if we don't fall into those types of relationships, or don't have the same kind of relationship with sexuality and romance, we're treated like shit and dehumanized. how is that not something that falls outside of the cultural norm?

people are just proudly being assholes again at this stage. it feels like rude ass people simmer down for a while and then get pissed the fuck off again in a never ending cycle. people don't like change. they don't want to have to change how they see other people. people become very attached to the versions of other that live in their heads and their heads alone. i don't really get why people who aren't/weren't a queer identity feel like they get to tell other people what it's about.

if you aren't or weren't that thing, how would you know? that makes no sense. it's just talking over people at this point. i hope things improve for you, and everyone in general. this is just sad behavior. it's toxic and abusive. it's hurting people in real time

[echoes-of-mia]

okay this is a long ramble and kinda personal, so bear with me, but i want to talk about being aspec in the joker out fandom bc I'm full of emotions and i need to share them somewhere

(just a short warning for internalised aphobia before i go on)

for context, i identify as aspec, more specifically asexual and some flavour of aromantic. I've known about the ace part for about 3-4 years now, the aro part is more recent and I'd say that before, lets say, a couple of months ago, I'd always seen that as something negative, something that makes me miserable, a deficit that will always be there and that others will never understand

and then i joined the (tumblr) joker out fandom around... june of last year, probably? and at first i thought "theres no way there are many queer people in this fandom, its essentially a boyband, and other aspec people? no way"

well, oh boy was i wrong

because not only is this fandom, like what, 90% queer? (i know someone made a poll at some point but i dont remember the percentages) but it's also around 50% aspec. and there's just this general positivity and support surrounding the a-spectrum in the fandom. like, some days ago there was an aphobic comment somewhere and before i even saw it my dash was FLOODED with people defending aspec people and i was just sitting in the kitchen reading through the posts and crying.

and yes, this is tumblr, i could have seen this coming and it's probably different on other platforms, but so many aspec people in one place, in one fandom, is still something that I've never experienced before.

so why are so many aspec people drawn to a slovenian indie/shagadelic rock band that, at first glance, is just 5 very good-looking probably-straight guys making music? that doesnt really make sense, right?

and then you see how much more they are. how they interact with each other. how comfortable they are in their sexualities, in their masculinity, in being themselves. you see a group of friends that love each other so unashamedly it's a bit unbearable to watch sometimes. you don't see them holding back because "thats not their partner!" or "that's reserved for romantic relationships!", you just see love. you see them supporting each other, being physically affectionate, looking out for each other, laughing together, even living together. vse kar vem could easily be a romantic song, but it's about their friendship!!

and what is all of that, if not THE dream of many aspec people? to be okay with not feeling sexual or romantic attraction because you have your group of friends that you love the same amount as allosexual/-romantic people love their partner(s) and to show it, and to know that they love you the same (and won't replace you with romantic partners) because they also show it, without thinking twice about it, without thinking about how others might interpret your relationship because it just doesn't matter as long as you love each other.

so of course aspec people see themselves in joker out. we see hope for ourselves in them, we are probably a little (or in my case very) jealous of their friendship, we want what they have or we just love to finally see real people live with the sort of affection we would like to have. (just to clarify, this is based mostly on what i feel, so other aspecs might feel completely different about this, idk why I'm trying to generalise this)

and this is about all five of them, but to take jan and nace as an obvious example: they love each other so much that the fans start to speculate, and they know about it. but instead of hiding their affection, they just keep on doing what they're doing. because they know how they feel for each other, and it's no one else's business, and they won't be stopping their love just because of "conspiracy theories". and to me it doesn't matter how they love each other (platonic, romantic, whatever), it matters that they do and that you can't help but notice it, because they show it in every interaction we see of them. the damon baker photoshoot just confirmed that, they look at each other and the amount of love makes me cry, it's so incredibly beautiful.

(just some other things i want to mention: them probably cooking mostly potatoes because nace is glutenfree. nace calming down bojan after his panic attack in summer. jan and bojan casually kissing on the lips during a concert. the jure and bojan getting married photoshoot. bojan touching kris's hair during concerts. kris being carried around during a photoshooting. jure and jan drawing a heart together. them gathering around jure's drumset during concerts. i could go on but for my sanity and yours i won't, there are so many moments that just make me soft)

I'd love to be more physically affectionate with my friends, but every time there's this voice in the back of my head saying what society has conditioned it to say, which is that that kind of affection is reserved for romantic relationships, and this voice stops me every time. i feel like bojan, jan, jure, kris and nace either don't have that voice (anymore?) or they've just managed to ignore it, they don't hold back and i admire that as much as i wish i could be like that.

and while i still have a long way to go until i can be affectionate with my friends without worrying about it or holding myself back, joker out have shown me that it's possible, because of them i finally have days on which i think that i can be aspec and actually happy about it. being aspec finally feels as freeing as it should feel and I'm just grateful

joker out has allowed so much queer joy into my life without intending to and although i don't think anyone i know irl will ever understand this, i hope that some of you can relate to this in some way.

I've said this a lot during the past two weeks but i can never say it enough: all the love to my fellow aspecs, and also to all the non-aspec people who support us <3

feel free to add to this if you want to; my dms are always open if you want to talk about it without posting about it, i love hearing other people's thoughts about stuff like this ^^

[aspec-vents]

an open letter to aphobes and alloromantics:

what the fuck is the deal with you guys equating romance to empathy

i am one of the most empathetic people i know

but i dont feel romantic attraction

and all of the sudden i am cold and heartless

it does not matter that i go to every food drive i can to help distribute food

or that i have told my mom about some things that are often overlooked (IE: homeless ppl, education quality, suicide rate, etc.) and begged her to use her political influence to do something about it

or that i always treat everyone with the same level of respect and give them equal opportunity in almost all situations (not like murderers or rapists cus fuck those guys)

or that nobody had even noticed that i was aro and i was always told that i had "the biggest heart I've ever seen" by others who then turn around and call me cold and heartless when i come out to them instead of giving me even 1% of the respect i gave them

why are you so insistent on oxytocin's being released in certain scenarios being the only thing that matters in this world

when you donate to a charity, you don't need to want to marry the recipients of the funds to go through with it, but when i don't want to marry them or anybody for that matter i am incapable of empathy???

and then when they realize that i did not come out as ace and am an aroallo they get even worse

one person (online thank god because otherwise i would be in jail for beating them to a pulp) said that because i wanted sex but not romance i was basically a rapist

how in the kentucky fried fuck does my not getting crushes mean that i am a rapist

I am friends with some victims of rape and the fact that people would think of me so lowly just because i was not like them to assume that i would do that to somebody, that i would make them feel that unique pain that i had to see my best friend's brother go through and never quite leave behind, all because i was different

because i felt enough trust and comfort in them to allow them to know this

because i am me

to any allos reading this, please please please never do any of these things to someone

i really wish i were one of you guys because it seems soooo nice and the idea of being in love looks like drinking ambrosia to me, but if this is what it does to people, then maybe i should be glad that i dodged that ICBM

i did not choose to be like this, and i would not if given the choice, so please, treat me with some basic human decency instead of treating me like scum

this this this this

[ryuunosora]

I’ve been meaning to make this post for a while, just got busy with rl stuff. But anyways, if anyone tries to argue with me with what I have to say, I’m automatically blocking you. I’m not in the mood for your glorification BS. And another thing, I’m a POC, so don’t fucking @ at me.

I have so many things to say about The Acolyte. That show disgusted me with how much racism and aphobia was in it. I was so happy to see Vernaestra Rwoh in live action. I would’ve loved to see other Hgh Republic Jedi in live action, too, like Avar Kriss or Stellan Gios. Like Vern, I’m aromantic / asexual myself. I love the prequels very, very much. And I LOVE the Jedi so much. You can’t tell how happy with how much research and dedication was put into the Jedi. I loved that we got to see a different generation of Jedi from a previous era. We really need to see more of that in live action.

BUT, with how The Acolyte was written, I was so disgusted with how much glorification of the Dark Side was in there. I was still disturbed by how Yord was killed like that (WTF @ Disney). Qimir also killed more Jedi, who are portrayed by POC, Jecki, a child and he didn’t even see her as a person, and he put a lightsaber against Osha’s head. But welp, to certain “fans”: he’s hot. Who cares about all the horrible things he did, because he’s hot, amirite?/s

I was so disgusted by how many people stan Qimir, the asshole, and ship Osha///mir because of the "enemies to lovers" trope. Y'all really just ignore what the asshole did just because he’s hot. Star Wars is a story about good and evil. Hope triumphing over evil. George Lucas also said the Dark Side is awful, and we literally see that happen in multiple SW media, but yeah, let’s glorify the Dark Side because why not??? And did they really need to paint the show as “ being better than the prequels”?? They didn’t need to do that. It could’ve been a show that takes place before the prequels. I’m defending the prequels for life and idgaf what anyone says. I’m also seeing how certain Acolyte fans bash on Skeleton Crew when it was about to be released. Yeah, they marketed Skeleton Crew as being part of the Mandoverse, and I dislike the Mandoverse a lot. However, after watching Skeleton Crew, I felt happy. You know why? Because they actually care about writing a good show. Yeah, Skeleton Crew did have flaws, but I still loved the show. But I definitely didn’t see that for the Acolyte because it was basically a bashing fanfic in the form of a show that Disney really took the decision to create and release. And there’s how Vern’s characterization was tarnished in the show, too. We get to see an aromantic / asexual character in SW live action, and THAT’S how they made her to be in that show?? And why am I not surprised that many people who do defend The Acolyte and were upset by the show’s cancellation just happened to be… white Westerners? I’m not saying all of them are, but that was the pattern I definitely noticed. Imagine stanning a show and the asshole villain while ignoring how racist, aphobic, and horrible the show was because it was written by certain ignorant white Westerners who have such a deep misunderstanding when it comes to the Jedi and why SW POC fans are upset about that show. Yeah… okay.

I have more to rant about when it comes to this show. But I’m tired of how the SW fandom is now. Maybe I’ll write another rant someday. Maybe.

[ruegarding]

(hi this is aroaceleovaldez it's a sideblog so i cant send asks from it hrg) a.) always love seeing your tags on my posts lol you have very good opinions [handshake emoji] b.) i'll be honest i wasn't even thinking about the awful pjo wwii stuff when i made that post i was thinking about the new, *different* antisemitism from TOA. of which there is. even more somehow. 😬 also fun fact Rick saying Reyna is allo-ace-coded on twitter might have actually semi been directly because of me, because he said that within like 2 hours and 2 tweets of replying to an open letter i wrote where i literally said that the way he wrote Reyna in Tyrant's Tomb falls into aphobic tropes and Isn't Great. despite replying to it i dont think he actually read it, lol. he then almost immediately left twitter for like 4 years and he also has since deleted his reply. fascinating stuff, truly.

anyways please excuse me digging through your hazel tag cause i am constantly dying trying to find hazel-focused fanart and you have one of the few good hazel tags i've been able to find. picture me scurrying away like some sort of small creature here.

hi thank u!! i appreciate your posts abt disabilities/ableism especially bc it's such an integral part of the story and a lens that gets lost despite that

i'll be honest, i haven't read toa (only short snippets when i want to see a specific scene), so i just read this article abt it, and it's frustrating that almost every example of diversity rick includes is riddled w harmful stereotypes. like, google is right there to help you avoid at least some! (psa to anyone else reading this, google "harmful [x] stereotypes" before making a character you're unfamiliar with!) the wwii stuff...rereading the series again like two years ago shocked me bc i had completely erased the entire plotline from my memory as a kid. some of these choices have me questioning the editors at the time, bc there were definitely things an editor should've pointed out if they were reading the full text.

your power! lmao but that behavior is exactly what makes it so difficult to give rick real feedback. i know some fans claim the older fandom is too cynical, but if we've been trying to give the same advice for years it's going to get old fast. every good change is accompanied by something else (especially noticeable in how percy is treated), so it always feels double-edged. but i'm glad you said this actually bc i didn't know he specified allo-ace! i had assumed he said aro-ace, but that actually makes the way ppl behave abt lesbians identifying w reyna more alarming...regardless i'm glad he's including ace rep bc it's rare, but the way reyna and the hunters were handled is...confusing at best.

please enjoy! i love hazel sm and i recently just went thru someone else's blog and queued a bunch of posts in a very similar fashion lol

[cosmicredcadet]

As another non-split aroace, you're so correct for saying that we're treated as the punching bags of both aro and ace communities. Like if y'all can accept and support straight aros and aces but are hostile towards aroaces, you're just aphobic. Yes even if you're aro/ace yourself. Aro spaces nowadays literally have the same attitude towards aroaces that exclusionists used to have towards asexuals, that we're weird freaks bringing purity culture into their "safe" communities just by existing and therefore need to be pushed out. And ace spaces still act like we're the bad guys and need to be pushed out of their "safe" communities because we can't romantically love other people, which makes us heartless monsters apparently. It's just exhausting. I've never seen aroaces being so hostile towards non-ace aros and non-aro aces, we're always trying to uplift their voices and bring awareness to their issues. But the moment we try to talk about our own issues in aromantic or asexual spaces we're told to shut up and let them speak over us because we somehow have it better than them. Not to mention the pressure to split your experiences into aro vs ace and prioritise one part of your identity over the other if you want to be taken seriously in those spaces. Like sorry but for some of us our aroaceness is interwined not split. But we're still aros and aces, still a part of your community. Stop trying to push us out of our own communities on the basis of aphobic stereotypes.

Honestly I've been kinda biting my tongue on it for a while because I understand why Aro and Ace ppl have been trying to separate the communities. it can be frustrating to constantly be paired with an identity that you don't relate to - but i feel like so many ppl have taken it way to far. They've taken the relatively understandable stance of "Aromantic and Asexual are not the same identity" and pushed it to the extreme of "Aro and Ace are so completely different they have nothing in common and NO overlap" and the worst part is i don't think anyone has particularly noticed.

Idk I was most active in the aro and ace communities when we still kinda shared communities. the idea that aro and ace were separate was still a thing (hell, aroaces were the ones helping to push that distinction. we wanted people to recognize our aro identities too, yknow.) but we recognized the overlap and similarities and supported each other... now it just feels like im seeing post after post reminding people not every aro or ace person is aroace and that people shouldt tag aro posts as ace and vice versa and "no ace people cant relate to aro experiences" "no aro people cant relate to ace experiences" because "They are so different they are completely not the same and don't have any overlapping problems at all" and as an aroace it sucks!

it sucks feeling forgotten in my own communities.

It's almost feeling like they are blaming us for there being this idea that people are are Ace must also be aro and people who are aro must also be ace. Like they know they cant get mad at the allos so they get mad at aroaces and act like we are the reason allos think this way. It's like aroaceness is only brought up to talk about how "Not everyone is aroace" or "aroace characters are so much more prevalent in media (Proceeds to only talk about ace characters)" or how aroace ppl must have an identity that means more to them - how their aro or ace identity must be more important or effect them more because they can't possibly intertwined and overlap and "hey you tagged your post with aro and ace tags but obviously its only about aromanticism/only about asexuality so remove some of those tags because it's annoying me" or worse I see aromantics being acephobic or asexuals being arophobic and it's like.... where do i fit in?

people think aroace ppl ran both communities as 1 community and they say it was bad and that we need to separate - but from my perspective it was two communities who worked together. the only difference now is that aroace ppl are getting pushed to the side. thrown under the bus. "you dont need rep you have tons of rep. society loves giving aroace rep!" and "not everyone is aroace. you're experience isn't universal and so you shouldn't talk about it" Aroace voices just got smaller. we got quieter. because our own communities decided we were privileged. we were more accepted than they were. or worse that we were actually the real freaks for not feeling both sexual and romantic attraction. we weren't palatable enough - there was nothing that could be used to normalize us. and besides, it was easier to just only fight for one set of rights, right?

and part of me understands it. it sucks. it sucks to always be a footnote. but guess what - aro and aces and aroaces are footnotes of the queer community. we're stuck here together and instead we're fighting over who's the more important footnote. we are all in the same boat and we're acting like we're not and trying to sink the ship forgetting we're all on it together.

[fite-club]

seriously though it’s so funny to me when someone is arguing that identity (not labels) are a fluid and changing thing. nobody suddenly becomes trans, they just realize that they are trans. nobody suddenly becomes a different sexual orientation, they just may notice that they experience attraction to the same gender. there are plenty of things that affect your own personal perception of your identity; you may think you only want a certain kind of relationship but understand after you transition that you actually want something else, you may have bad experiences that prevent you from doing introspection or experimenting, you might not be emotionally/actually ready for things that you hypothetically do want. none of these things are your identity changing, they’re just your perception of your identity changing. this is why i make the distinction between identity and labels— it’s a normal part of the process to try different labels! but the labels are for the outside. the inside, your identity, that is something that will always be part of you and cannot be changed.

i don’t know if it’s any different or if i’m just older now, but it kinda seems like there’s a bit more pressure on teens to figure themselves out. you actually DON’T need to pick a pride flag to make your phone background! you don’t have to list all your labels in your bio, even! and i especially need minors to know that just because you haven’t experienced sexual attraction yet, doesn’t mean you never will. i get that stuff like that gets dismissed as “aphobic” because of how often people tell aces “you just haven’t met the right person yet”, but this is actual teenagers we’re talking about here. it is so, so, SO normal for anyone under the age of 18 (or even 20) to not really be fully comfortable with the idea of fucking someone else. that doesn’t make you asexual.

[pan-magi]

Heads up that I won't have much to post for a while. I'm moving! Back home for a bit while I'm figuring stuff out (like not being broke). Before, when I mentioned my slow activity I left for a few years. Don't worry, I'm not planning on doing that. I have a backlog of... shitpost ideas, which I will post when I have time. If I have the sudden urge and energy to get some of my longer text posts done then I'll try to do them. Any edits and gifs though will be on the back burner for a while.

(That's the gist of it. If you want a mental health discussion and my general thought process on tumblr, read more if curious. It's more of the vein of "tumblr is an addictive website for me" than "this site is destructive and damning." jsyk)

I know I have it in my blog description that the blog is semi-archived. I have been doing my best though to at least post somewhat regularly. The rate for posting may not be fast per number of posts but for me working on them it is very time and energy consuming (yay executive dysfunction and undiagnosed ADHD woo). It doesn't help either not using Photoshop anymore making gifs is lot less streamlined (get all my necessary screenshots frame by frame and organize them -> edit each individually -> put them together with final edits to make a gif. All in 3 separate programs). My wallet appreciates the decision at least.

The thing is I put that in the description not for the lack of time I have to do stuff but the opposite. I have a lot of empty time to fill. Tumblr is one of the few social media sites I actually use and even with the ability to curate your dash (maybe in part because of it), it is easy for tumblr to be addictive without noticing it. That's with me not bothering with the app. I do check a lot with the mobile browser though. I knew with my attention span and how I tend to do or not get things done that being consistently active would not be the best for me personally. Not bad, per say, but not great.

I love you all. It's been great to see a few of my older followers still interact with my posts from time to time. It's nice to see new ones and the Magi fandom in general getting new people coming in, maybe just for the tumblr side or maybe new altogether, when the series has been complete for years. When I say tumblr is not good for me, I don't mean you. Lots of love for everyone /platonically, my aroace ass wants to clarify and add on a giant thank you for no aphobic hate by anyone here either. I would not have trusted to come out on tumblr even if I had my identity figured out when I was active before.

I do want to keep people satisfied. Analytics shouldn't matter on this hellsite, and they don't, not really. I don't care about what the number is but seeing any notes on my posts is a quick dopamine rush. "Yay, I made someone smile." If I have a free moment, I'm like "I should check tumblr," or "I should work on post for blog." I enjoy what I make and enjoy doing it. However, it's become more attempting to be active and getting something out there despite saying I will manage juggling all sorts of different stuff better. I'm not doing other recreational stuff I want to do. I'm behind on games, movies, books, creative shit outside of tumblr, watching Magi for at least the fifth time... If I have a free moment I'm "work on tumblr post."

It's dumb. I should be able to manage shit better. Again, ADHD. Or maybe it's something else. IDFK.

All this to say that I'm taking the excuse of moving to force myself out of the tumblr sphere. I won't have the time or energy to get larger time-consuming posts done. I might as well focus on something else when I have the opportunity.

I am not planning on disappearing. I do like it here. Stayed too long at the spa though and need to get out and get cool, fresh air. I have short, borderline/actual shitposts I want to get done, as mentioned up top. One may be up in the next week. Who knows though? I don't. What I do know is that if I post something over the summer it will be because it is something I want to get done, when I want it to get done. No rushing myself pointlessly. It will be little things though. Bigger edits and gifs aren't hard yet tedious and draining when I'll be buried in boxes and working on home repairs for the immediate future.

Everyone take care of yourselves out there. If you read all this, thanks! Now, I've spent over an hour working on this when it was supposed to take me 15-20 minutes, and I need to sleep lol.

[maerhiya]

If I say I lack cats, I have zero cats. Gay men lack attraction to women and when they do have attraction to women, they are bisexual, no longer gay. You cannot be ace or aro and experience attraction.

If aces can have and want sex and feel sexual and romantic attraction, how are they different from anyone else? "Well, they experience less attraction," than who? Who defined the average amount of attraction? How do you know? What is the boundary? People who aren't ace can be sex repulsed or virgins or celibate by choice or disinterested in sex because they have a low libido or trauma. What is the difference between an ace and allo?

How can you lack attraction and still have it? How can you lack sexual attraction and still have directed sexual desires for other people when most peopel consider sexual desires towards someone to be sexual attraction? Where is the boundary between sexual attraction and sexual desire?

And how does that boundary exist in a way that should discourage shipping ace and aro and aroace characters? How is it disrespectful to those characters when YOUR community says that aces and aros can and do want esx and romance? How do you "acknowledge" the characters aro and aceness when aro and aceneses effectively DO NOT MATTER at this point? If an ace can want to fuck and can feel heavy attraction to their partner, how are they different from anyone else?

Why would these characters mean anythign to actual ace and aro people who actually feel zero attraction and therefore zero respective desire for people?

How is aphobic for me, an ace, to want asexuality to mean something?

alright, let's start by defining what the lack of something means:

"the fact that something is not available or that there is not enough of it." (cambridge)

thus, lacking something doesn't automatically mean that you don't have it, it can also mean that you don't have enough of it. you cannot compare tangible objects to abstract things because they vary and are way more complex. (also, gay can be an umbrella term and bisexuality is a spectrum. queer identities are generally not binary.)

You cannot be ace or aro and experience attraction.

an aromantic is defined as someone who experiences little to no romantic attraction while an asexual is someone who experiences little to no sexual attraction. those are the general defenitions of what aromantic and asexual are when you introduce those terms to people. (but here's a source for them anyway)

"Well, they experience less attraction," than who? Who defined the average amount of attraction? How do you know? What is the boundary?

it doesn't need to be based on an arbitrary "average" that needs to scientifically measured. it's simply based on self-perception and lived experiences.

most people grow up experiencing romantic and/or sexual attraction in ways that feel natural or frequent to them, and observable patterns in society, media, and peers can support that. when someone finds themselves not relating to those experiences — especially if it persists and makes them feel alienated — they begin looking into labels like aromantic and asexual.

it takes basic observation skills to notice that there's a gap between ourselves and societal norms, that many people have attraction come easy to them while you may experience it less, under specific circumstances, or none at all. we can tell when we're consistently missing something that others are obviously experiencing without the necessity for a mathematical baseline. (here's a reddit thread of demis discussing how they've observed that their attraction isn't as frequent as everyone else's anyway).

as for the boundary — well, like i said last time, it's defined by the lack, infrequency, or conditional nature of attraction. that's what sets us apart from allos.

People who aren't ace can be sex repulsed or virgins or celibate by choice or disinterented in sex because they have a low libido or trauma.

well, yes, because those things don't automatically equate to the lack of attraction: being sex-repulsed or disinterested is about how someone feels about sex, not attraction; virgins or celibate by choice is, like you said, a choice, therefore it's not attraction because attraction is not a choice; libido is about sex drive, not attraction; and trauma involves distressing experiences that may lead to sex-aversion, but that's behavior towards sex and not attraction itself.

these things can overlap with attraction, yes, but one doesn't prove or disprove the other.

How can you lack sexual attraction and still have directed sexual desires for other people when most peopel consider sexual desires towards someone to be sexual attraction? Where is the boundary between sexual attraction and sexual desire?

just because most individuals confuse the two, doesn't mean they're the same thing, and they don't necessarily go hand-in-hand. attraction is about who — it's being drawn to a person. meanwhile, sexual desire is about what — it's the overall urge or drive to have sex, which can exist without being specifically directed at anyone.

you can have sexual desire without experiencing sexual attraction (and vice versa). some aces may still want sex even if they don't feel that same "pull" toward someone in the ways allos do (there are also many other motivations for having sex or getting into relationships outside of mere attraction and urges). allos often equate desire with attraction because for them, they typically happen together. but they can be completely separate for aces. that's literally the point. that's the difference. the boundary is clearer when you stop assuming everyone experiences sexuality the same way.

And how does that boundary exist in a way that should discourage shipping ace and aro and aroace characters? How is it disrespectful to those characters when YOUR community says that aces and aros can and do want esx and romance?

as i've mentioned last time, i'm not generally against shipping aro/aces. but it becomes dismissive if people portray those characters dating or having sex and then erase the aspects of their identities that make them aspec (because an aspec should still have that lack of attraction).

Why would these characters mean anythign to actual ace and aro people who actually feel zero attraction and therefore zero respective desire for people?

well, as an aroace who feels "zero attraction", they still matter because they're still aspec and as a community we have to appreciate every scrap of representation we get because representation matters and we hardly get any??? representation isn’t just about replicating exactly how someone experiences attraction — it’s about resonating with the emotional experiences, the detachments, or the autonomy that come with being outside the norm.

How is aphobic for me, an ace, to want asexuality to mean something?

the problem isn't wanting asexuality to mean something. the problem is that you're trying to force a rigid, one-dimensional definition of aromanticism and asexuality that invalidates other nuanced experiences. not everything is black and white.

you've established the idea that aro/ace characters "mean nothing" if they don't have "zero attraction" and that's disrespectful and erases the identities of many real people on the spectrum (literally why are you trying to gatekeep??). you can't want your identity to be respected while dismissing others' existence within the same spectrum. just because you can't fully grasp the other identities doesn't mean they don't exist or that they're not still considered aro/ace, nor should you regard them as "meaningless."

[smosh-fessions]

you want me to ignore "what I heard" and focus on what he said, and I'm already doing that, because what I heard IS what he said. it came out of his mouth. I am focusing on what he said. and he's said conflicting things. pointing that out doesn't make me aphobic and it doesn't mean I'm attacking the community. it means I noticed something. if anything it feels like you've been attacking me and projecting some insecurity, not that the insecurity isn't justified. I know it is, I very much agree with you on principle, but it's just not what's happening here.

He didn't say he liked men in a hetero way, which is what you said you heard. So no, you are not hearing what he said. his generalizations about himself have been explained to you, and you wanna argue about him giving the in depth explanation of the finer points of his orientation.

just like i can say i'm gay, but then if i give you the finer explanation of my orientation, i got told that i wasn't strictly gay enough to call myself that, so now i've switched to blanket queer to shut people who do the shit you are doing right now up. you see how this works?

if you don't get it just say you don't get it and go away. nothing else you send me is getting posted.

people have conflicting labels sometimes. get the fuck over it.

[gammija]

i know its been said before, but, emphatically, i cant believe there are still acephobes in the tma fandom

[viviennevermillion]

With an asexual s/o

notes: just some self-indulgent headcanons. i don't think this is going to get a lot of notes but the ace community deserves more content.

contains: character x gn!reader, qpr in alhaithams part, the plot twist here is that the characters in question are also on the ace-spectrum

characters included: alhaitham, diluc, pantalone

warnings: mentions of sex in the context of being asexual, hints at harassment and a bit of violence in pantalone's part (not towards the reader)

aphobes, dc creators and consumers dni

Alhaitham

Let's be real here, Alhaitham as a kid took one look at romance and sexual relations and decided that he'd have a better time with a good book and a research trip to the desert. "You'll change your mind when you get older", they said to him. And then he didn't. And everytime someone brings that up he's kinda smug about it, in a told you so kinda way. Alhaitham always knew what he wanted and didn't want and people thinking they knew better was a hassle for him he'd rather not bother with.

Alhaitham is aware of the term asexual and that he falls under it by definition but he doesn't really care for putting labels on himself as he sees no necessity to find ways to explain and define himself to people. The only time he actively labels himself as asexual is when you come out to him to make things easier for you.

Alhaitham would be considered quoiromantic; he's not sure if what he feels is romantic attraction but the concept of romantic attraction also doesn't have much significance to him.

You don't get together with Alhaitham by asking him out and going on dates with him. Your bond just kinda happens. You spend a significant amount of time in each other's presence and Alhaitham finds that he quite enjoys your company. As you become closer, he notices he looks forward to talking to you everyday; to even engage in some playful banter with you. He can talk to you about all sorts of topics and your relationship just has this feel of mutual comfort to it. You can just idly sit next to each other and exchange a couple of words and somehow people can always tell you two are close. He's clearly looking out for you and you're very considerate of his habits and preferences. You're always each other's first choice for anything, whether it's spending your freetime together, seeking advice or working on something together. Alhaitham seems more at peace and happier when he's with you and so do you.

Several people had asked you whether you two were dating or just friends and feeling unsure of where you stood with him, you decided to talk to him about it. "And why would we need to put a label on it, hmm?", he asks and wraps an arm around you affectionately, "so people can put us into categories to ease their own confusion because they struggle to clearly define our bond?"

Alhaitham thought you might have romantic feelings for him and he was half-prepared for holding you a lecture on alterous attraction and how he doesn't experience attraction and relationships the same way most people do. When you come out to him as asexual he's like "god you're making this so much easier for me."

Alhaitham reassures you that he cares deeply about you and he'd like to keep you close to him as you already were. From that moment on, Alhaitham calls you his partner and you call him that too. What that entails? No one's business.

Alhaitham doesn't often initiate physical affection but he does a lot of idle motions like putting an arm around you when you sit down next to him or leaning his head against your shoulder when he's laying next to you and reading his book. He doesn't mind if you want to kiss or cuddle though.

It's clear as day to anyone who knows you that you two love each other even if they can't exactly define what you have as either friendship or romance.

Diluc

Lisa was the one person who started off teasing Diluc a little about having so many admirers and asking him "aren't you interested in any of them?" but she also was the first to notice Diluc was probably ace before Diluc himself even noticed he worked differently than most people around him.

But oh Diluc noticed, even if he didn't have a label to put on it before he met you. He always felt a little uneasy when the topic came up because he just knew it'd result in people asking questions and him not having an answer nor particularly wanting to answer them.

By the time he met you Diluc had become quite the expert in turning people down but the more time he spent with you, the more he noticed that he didn't want to turn you down. And that this time would probably result in you turning him down. Oh how wrong he was.

He could tell you liked him as time went on but he was hesitant about taking the next step because he feared you might, by convention, expect things from him he couldn't give you. And you felt the same way. So the two of you grew gradually closer, even flirting with each other on rare occasion, all while actively dancing around the confrontation because neither of you had an idea how to address the subject

You're the one who eventually tells him how you feel and comes out to him. Diluc asks a couple of questions and listens attentively as you explain asexuality to him. Then goes: "Oh, so there is a word for it.."

You felt really relieved to hear that Diluc felt the same as you did and that you helped him make sense of his experiences. He confessed to you that for a while he was worried that there might just be something wrong with him and that he's happy that's not the case and that he gets to be with you, someone who understands him and can relate.

He has a long conversation with you about your shared experiences because this is the first time he could talk with someone else about this without being at least partially dismissed. He also talks about your boundaries with you and his as well to make sure neither of you makes the other uncomfortable with something.

After the talk Diluc feels a little exhausted because even though it was relieving and enlightening, it was also stressful and made him feel a little anxious, given that you were talking about something he mostly kept to himself up to this point.

He asks if he can kiss you and if you say yes, he leans over and kisses you softly, letting you bury your fingers in his hair. His kiss is hesitant at first but he gets more passionate with time, smiling into the kiss when he notices this is actually happening. That you accept him the way he is and love him and are kissing him.

He lets you stay with him for the night, holding you protectively against his chest.

Pantalone

Painfully aware of the fact that he's on the ace-spectrum because the rich people he scams for his plans tend to get really good at oversharing about their sexual preferences after enough wine at the banquets. The alcohol is a double-edged sword because it sometimes works in his favor since he can find out people's weak points but it's also an easy spiral into "too much information, didn't need to know this"

Several of his business partners have tried to pressure him to join them in their endeavors because they "know a club in some fairly unknown alley" or have encouraged him to "hit someone up", which he always refused. Which is what bred the joke in those circles that the only thing that man is attracted to is cold hard cash.

He had many people who tried to make advances towards him, some because they were after his money and some because he was conventionally attractive. Quite a few entitled nobles had a tendency to mistake his mischievous and suave demeanor as him being flirty when really he was just scheming how to bleed them dry of all the money they have 💀

Some of them just wouldn't take "no thank you I'm not interested" as an answer, insisting they could change that. Most of them he just shooed away. Two or three ended up with some broken bones because they took it a step too far.

Pantalone has seen some shit and been through a lot and he hasn't been given physical affection in over a literal decade so he's actually fairly hesitant and receiving affection from you and he needs to warm up a bit to the idea of being kissed and held.

When you tell him you're asexual he's like "oh thank god, me too."

He always asks before he initiates any new physical contact or kisses you in a place he hasn't before to make sure to not overstep any of your boundaries. After all, he's receiving the patience from you he craved but most people wouldn't have given him.

He's pretty sex-repulsed because he spent too much time around the worst kind of people for the sake of harbinger business.

He's clingy and extremely gentle with you in private and will love you with all his heart but if anyone dares to give you shit over your asexuality or bothers you they'll receive the iciest death glare that banker is capable of. The one more step and you're a dead man kinda expression.

He'll smile and go "My, my, it sounds like you had quite the exciting day, my friend" at some rich, slightly intoxicated merchant making small talk with him at a gathering and telling Pantalone about all his pursuits of women and his affairs in detail but the second that person is out of sight, Pantalone's face falls and he looks at you with an "I'm done" expression. "I don't want to be here", he says dryly and you suggest to get another mousse au chocolat from the buffet and share it with him. "Yeah, let's", he takes your hand and glances at the guy who talked to him just now, "once I have his cash I'll buy you something nice from it." "Not this again, Pantalone." He gently kisses your lips. "See it as compensation for the emotional damage this conversation gave us."

Over the course of your relationship Pantalone finds out he's actually demisexual but that doesn't change anything between the two of you either. He adapts to you with ease, no matter what your boundaries are.

author's note: tagging @k-zu because he wanted to be tagged! ✨

[aroaceconfessions]

Context and tw/cw's; I have a friend whose fully aroace and romance+sex repulsed(okay with jokes as long as they're just jokes and you arent 'hitting on' them), and our friend we have doesn't quite seem to get it so mild possible aphobia :/(which is awkward because I'm right there as an asexual person myself, and they know)

Me, the friend I'm just gonna call A(for aroace, get it?), and the other friend I'm gonna call J, we're all hanging out outside during a school soccer game, A was talking to another friend of ours' brother, of which was considered shocking because the brother is..a typical high school jock boy, tall, buff, blonde, blue-eyed, and homophobic(queerphobic if you wann get specific, he once insulted Genderfluid people and called the Identity stupid with me right there, but that's another story), but they were getting along, and being even..friendly, with each other. J noticed this pointed it out to the sister(our friend) who was confused at first, but then we explained it(I noticed it first and brought it to attention to J), and they also started just looking at them in shock, J then turns to me and says "Y'know, maybe he will find somebody after all." Since I was already tired, and not having that today, I turned and said "But A's aroace, he doesn't want that. And he's romance and sex repulsed as well." J just..shrugs and says, "Well maybe he'll eventually change."

How the hell do I explain to them that, that's incredibly aphobic, and I'm glad that A didnt hear J? Sorry for the longer post and a rant but..what the hell. Aphobia is so normalized, even in the queer community, but what should I do?

Submitted May 13, 2023

[acephantoms]

Warning: This post will contain spoilers for Netflix’s Wednesday - do tread carefully.

Why I Think Wednesday Addams (particularly this adaptation) is AroAce.

———

Quick Definitions of Terms I’ll Be Using:

AroAce: someone who is on both the Asexual and Aromantic spectrum.

Asexual: experiencing little to no sexual attraction.

Aromantic: experiencing little to no romantic attraction.

Demiromantic: does not experience romantic attraction until they have formed a deep emotional connection with someone.

Greyromantic: experiencing romantic attraction but very infrequently.

——— Now let’s begin:

So I recently watched Wednesday and absolutely loved it!! I noticed specific things about this Wednesday that made me think she was AroAce. Despite her having feelings for Tyler, the way she acted around these non-platonic relations felt very familiar. I will say though, Tyler and her romance felt very forced (personally), but i digress.

In the first episode, Wednesday expresses to her parents, specifically her mother how she will “never be like her” and wishes to “never marry, or have kids” etc. which already began to intrigue me. An attitude and notion I had from a young age as well (and still agree with). Secondly, while on the drive to the academy, we see Wednesday get increasingly uncomfortable by her parents affection for each other (yes in general it can be gross to see our parents this way, but the nauseous feeling she mentions is relatable).

A Brief Look at Tyler & Wednesday:

A lot of the ways that Wednesday would react to Tyler’s advances in trying to be more than friends, she didn’t really pick up on (such as his attempts to flirt or ask her out). An example being, Tyler outside of the police station talking with Wednesday, “i thought you liked me” - Wednesday has this familiar face of confusion (and realization) that some might call asexual obliviousness (can’t tell when someone’s flirting, thinks their just being nice). At least, it’s familiar to me haha. Even when they do start to consider being more than friends, we see Wednesday sort of still confused by this possible romantic feelings that she hadn’t really taken the time to notice. Since beginning at the academy - She firstly never really had friends until going to the academy, and secondly, upon making friends then began to develop a romantic attraction.

Personally with such evidence that I saw, I would headcanon her as Asexual Demiromantic OR as Asexual Greyromantic. Maybe bias as an Asexual Demiromantic myself, but her character just felt too familiar in her sense of exploring platonic and non-platonic feelings.

Addressing some Misconceptions:

I’ve seen some discourse on here about people either wanting:

1) Enid & Wednesday as a ship

OR 2) to be AroAce.

I think some folks forget that AroAce people can still be in romantic relationships (or sexual relationships) and engage in romantic/sexual activities. Aromanticism and Asexuality have a broad spectrum of identities under their umbrella terms.

Enid, Wednesday, Tyler (and Xavier) thoughts:

I honestly think Enid & Wednesday would make a cute couple!! Tyler & Wednesday were okay, but like i said it felt VERY forced. Not entirely sure if they are trying to set up Xavier and Wednesday but I would like to see more female - male platonic relationships too. Don’t need to always have them in a relationship ugh!! Final reminder: AroAce folk can still be in relationships!! Also you’re valid!! 💗

Anyways,

thanks for reading my little tangent!! /gen

Let me know what you think in the comments!! [Any form of aphobic comments will be removed!] - Using tone indicators would be appreciated!! <3

[xx-slug-xx]

As someone who is aspec: ARO/ACE FOLKS ARE ALLOWED TO BE IN RELATIONSHIPS!

I feel like the whole “shipping aro/ace characters is aphobic” thing is completely aphobic anyway. Like, aro/ace people are allowed to be in relationships if they want to. I’m ace, I want a relationship. Just not a conventional one, but it’s still something I deeply desire. And I know many aro people who also wouldn’t mind being in a relationship either (whether it be sexual or romantic for both aromantics and asexuals! Something I’ve noticed is that a lot of aro/ace people who do want to have a relationship with someone just doesn’t fit into the norm of what people would think a relationship would entail). We are still deserving of love, regardless of how we experience sexual or romantic attraction! We have free will and the right to choose what we want. When people say you can’t ship aro and/or ace characters, it feels like a slap to the face to our real world autonomy.

If someone came up to me and my partner, and told me that I shouldn’t be in a relationship with them because I’m asexual, I would be furious.

Ok so I've seen this post way too many times on my dashboard not to get pissed so here's me saying this: Shipping is not aphobic, Soulmates AUs are not aphobic, having fun imagining your favorite little guys having sex is not aphobic.

"But one of these characters is asexual in the text!" 1: a character which doesn't have a canon relationship is not necessarily aspec, and 2: even if the character is canonically aro/ace, shipping them with someone doesn't erase the fact that they're aro/ace in the text, and in fact doesn't hurt anyone because IT'S FICTION. It's like shipping with an age gap, shipping gay characters with the opposite sex, shipping murderers and cannibals, shipping het characters with the same sex, any other "problematic" thing you can think of. It's fiction. It's not real, it doesn't hurt anyone, it's just some poor sod's past-time like it is yours and mine and everyone else's who spend their time shipping fictional people.

"Shipping hurts X category of people" is anti rhetoric and guess what, it's bullshit. You're just calling people aphobic instead of p3do, groomer or whatever other offensive nonsense antis say.

"But soulmate AU are aphobic!" Look, I hate soulmate AUs because they're cheesy and made with the cookie cutter, but that's just bullshit. No they don't hurt aspec communities, they simply do not cater to aromantic people. Something which doesn't cater to you simply existing does not in fact hurt you. And anyway you're free to create your own "Platonic Soulmate AU" if you so like, I promise no one is stopping you and a lot of folks would appreciate it.

"But it normalizes amatonormativity!" LISTEN. It's called amatonormativity FOR A REASON, and this reason is that it is the norm. Fandom spaces haven't normalized it, IT IS ALREADY NORMALIZED. Hetero, cis, allo and amatonormativity don't come from fandoms, they are not pushed by fandoms, and making it sound any different is the same kind of rhetoric antis use. Kinda on the opposite end of the spectrum of that specific brand of antis which claims incest in fanfictions normalizes it, whereas 8 seasons of GoT somehow don't. Like fucking stop treating fans like they hold the keys to make things widely spread and accepted, maybe? Because that's also what antis do in their attempt to police what other people like...?

In conclusion, this is an internalized anti behavior which won't help aspec people, won't help fandom and will only fuel shame in anyone who takes it seriously. It's just a very fancy brand of censorship. Fucking stop.

[aro-culture-is]

Hi... uhm... I ask here for a little help... I literaly didnt realize this until yesterday when it hit me like a ton of bricks and right now Im a bit confused as to WHAT I am.

A guy in a class likes me, but I dont like him back, and I suddenly realize the thought kinda made me uncomfortable. Which I found weird because I always thought I wanted a romantic relationship but then suddenly thought "DO I? Or do I only like the IDEA of it?".

Ive confirmed that Im Aegosexual, so that part of me is clear just took a while but I have no doubt.

But the romantic part is where I have doubts. I did a little research but Im not really sure if Im demiromantic, cupioromantic or aegoromatic. Or if Im aromantic at all...

I-I dont know... was the guy just not my type? In my life Ive literally had only 4 crushes, and Im almost in my 30s, but I think ive always liked the idea of love. To support and be supported by someone, to take care of them... but... I dont know if the part of the romatic attraction was THERE... so... Im... confused... AM I aromantic? Am I? ... Im not sure...

I can't tell you with any certainty what your identity is. However, having only 4 crushes by your late 20s sounds very unusual for an alloromantic individual not in long, committed relationships during that time. I think you'd likely benefit from checking out the tag "am i aro" on this blog and seeing how others began to notice/identify as aromantic. It is possible that this guy just wasn't your type - but the degree to which you are questioning makes me inclined to suspect you're somewhere in the aromantic spectrum.

This may make your questioning more complicated, but I also think it is worth understanding amatonormativity and how you may experience it. It may also be worth investigating queerplatonic relationships and attraction, and listening to people who talk about their experiences with such. One great website to look at for more established terms in the aro community is AUREA and their glossary. I'd advise caution if you use the LGBTQIA fandom wikia, as that was devastated by an aphobic fandom wikia developer less than a year ago, iirc. It may be recovering, but there at least was someone who had the power to delete and change things with malice.

I hope this helps to at least provide some framework for your questioning. I'll tag this post "am i aro", and you can explore the tag by clicking on that on my blog.